Også lurt av Panlegis

Jeg ville vente med å fortelle min sak her til jeg hadde fått avslutten min sak med Panlegis. Det har jeg nå gjort, men jeg vil fortelle min opplevelse her for framtidige offre. Denne websiden var nemlig til god hjelp for meg.

Jeg hadde en lignende opplevelse som denne. Jeg ble oppringt på jobb, og sa meg enig i at de kunne ringe meg senere. Dette fordi jeg faktisk har vurdert å skifte selskapsform, og at jeg kjente igjen firmanavnet ettersom de har sendt meg mail i lang tid. Jeg var faktisk interessert i informasjon. Men jeg hadde ingen planer om å gå inn i noen avtale nå, da jeg ville vente å se hva som skjedde med de nye AS-reglene som er varslet. Dessuten visste jeg det ville koste noen tusenlapper, og ville minst vente til sommeren. Jeg ble som mange andre først kontaktet av en hyggelig svenske, før jeg ble satt over til “eksperten”, eller “closeren” som jeg vil kalle ham. Langt inne i samtalen gikk det veldig brått fra informasjon til “da må vi få kredittkortet ditt”. Jeg rakk jo ikke å tenke så mye, ble litt satt ut og lurte på om jeg hadde sagt noe som kunne tolkes som et ja. Men jeg følte meg på en måte forpliktet til å “følge opp”, og ga faktisk fra meg kredittkortdetaljene. Jeg begynte å bli mistenksom på dette punktet, spesielt fordi prisen plutselig gikk fra norske kroner til Euro, og at sluttsummen kom på mer enn etableringsavgiften og første års avgift. Begynte å stille litt spørsmål, og fikk aller nødigst svar om at det var en avgift til et eller annet i England på 17,5%. Det var i det hele tatt veldig diffust hva de faktisk kom til å trekke fra min konto. At man ville få avgift til Brønnøysundreg. på toppen av dette kom også frem veldig sent i samtalen. Men teknikken deres var veldig god, og enden på visa var at min gryende mistenksomhet skjedde parallelt med kredittkorttransaksjonen, og rett etter at jeg hadde lagt på følte jeg meg lurt. Jeg hadde jo ikke tenkt å inngå noen avtale, og spurte t.o.m om jeg ikke skulle få noen papirer først som jeg kunne se over, noe de hoppet galant over.

De spekulerer selvsagt i at man ikke rekker å google dem, de er svært motiverte til å dra avtalen i land før man legger på telefonen. Men jeg fikk jo bekreftet mine mistanker når jeg først fikk sjekket. De ringte meg en fredag kveld, lørdag morgen sendte jeg en mail hvor jeg ba de avlyse hele avtalen, jeg var kort, men sa at jeg følte meg manipulert på telefonen. Jeg ba om at de refunderte pengene mine og avbrøt prosessen. Jeg hadde håpet å rekke det før de fylte ut alle papirene. Jeg sperret også kredittkortet, og startet en kortreklamasjonssak som jeg fikk tips om her inne. På mandagen hadde jeg ikke fått noe svar, så jeg sendte en ny mail til en annen mail-adresse. Denne mottok de tydeligvis for de prøvde å ringe meg 3 ganger før jeg stod opp neste morgen. Da de fikk kontakt med meg senere på tirsdagen prøvde jeg å være saklig og høflig, ville gi de en sjans til å ordne opp og motbevise det frynsete ryktet de har på internett. Sofia, hun som ringte, sa hun skulle høre på opptaket fra samtalen og komme tilbake til meg. Hun prøvde seg selvsagt på at jeg i følge opptaket hadde inngått avtalen og den var jeg forpliktet til. Jeg prøvde å argumentere for at vilkårene som følger avtalen, som sier at du forplikter deg også over telefon, først var tilgjengelig for meg ETTER at “salget” hadde funnet sted, og at du ikke kan komme med vilkårene for en avtale i ettertid. Til dette fikk jeg bare svar som “hvilken vilkår”.. I det hele tatt fikk jeg bare vage svar som “du har inngått avtale..”

Når fornuft og høflighet var prøvd, gikk jeg rett på de råd jeg fant her. Men først etter at jeg helt på slutten av samtalen informerte om at jeg hadde startet en kortreklamasjonssak. Dette ser ut til å skremme de, for det likte de slett ikke. 5 minutter senere ringer Sofia meg oppigjen, bare for å informere meg om at de ble nødt til å anmelde meg til politiet, forde jeg hadde reklamert på en transaksjon som jeg i følge de hadde gitt tilatelse til. De truet også med å snakke med banken min. (Uten at jeg vet hva de ville oppnå med det.) Dette er så åpenbar skremselstaktikk at jeg ikke kunne ta de seriøst, så jeg sa “kjør på.” Tvert i mot så var dette til min fordel, for det beviste for banken min at de er useriøse.

Det som har funket for meg er å selv slette firmaet i England, og å gi banken all den informasjon de ønsket. (Snakket med de på telefonen rett etter trusselen om politianmeldelse, og fortalte de alt i detalj.) Jeg var også åpen om at jeg faktisk ga fra meg kortnummeret, men heldigvis tok de meg likevel seriøst. Jeg fortalte de også hva som var min plan for å få pengene tilbake. Først når jeg fikk bekreftelse fra Companies House skrev jeg en ny mail til Panlegis. Dagen etter får jeg mail om at pengene mine var refundert, og jeg skulle ha mottatt en kvittering. (Hvilket jeg ikke har, men pengene har kommet tilbake.) Det som er merkelig er at det ser ut til at de satte pengene inn igjen dagen før jeg sendte den siste mailen, så det var altså ikke den som var utslagsgivende. Det er muligens kortreklamasjonssaken som gjorde susen. Men det var viktig for banken at jeg selv prøvde å få pengene tilbake, og firmaet i England må uansett slettes. Så min anbefaling er å kjøre de to parallelt.

Som en siste fotnote: Når jeg først ble oppringt for flere uker siden, var det av en svenske som het Patrick. Det var muligens en annen svenske som ringte meg opp senere på kvelden. Og så i dag, etter at saken er avsluttet og Panlegis bekrefter å ha fjernet meg fra sin kundeliste, får jeg en telefon fra Verdun Group, av en svenske som heter Patrick!! Jeg måtte jo først le, og sa kort at jeg ikke er interessert. Han ga seg selvsagt ikke med det, og når jeg sa “du skal selge meg NUF, skal du ikke”, svarte han “NUF? Hva mener du? Jeg har ringt deg tidligere ang ditt selskap..” og jeg sa “men da ringte du meg fra Panlegis, ikke Verdun Group” hvorpå han svarer “nei du må forveksle meg med noen annen..” Jeg ba han komme til poenget fort, da jeg var på jobb, men han ville heller ringe meg senere. Har lurt på om Panlegis og Verdun group er det samme, enten det eller så jobber svenske Patrick hos de begge.. Men helt utrolig at de prøver seg på samme tullet bare uker etter at jeg har kranglet meg til å få pengene mine tilbake..

Ok, dette ble et langt innlegg, men jeg ville få med litt av argumentene som jeg brukte i min forklaring til banken osv, slik at andre kan bruke de hvis de kjenner seg igjen. Anbefaler alle å ikke la seg skremme, men kjør på til du får gjennomslag. Hvis firmaet i England ikke lenger eksisterer har de ikke lenger noen gyldig avtale. Det er deres eget spill å forvirre deg med at de ringer deg som privatperson men avtalen inngås mellom de og ditt nye firma, dette kan du bruke mot dem.

Takk til Patrick som indirekte minnet meg på at jeg skulle skrive dette innlegget:-)

Vist 5076 ganger. Følges av 7 personer.

Kommentarer

Hei Monica , og takk for et flott innlegg.
Ang. Verdun Group: jeg har lenge hatt mistanke om at Zangenberg og Panlegis også står bak dette.
Like greit å styre unna.
Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Hehe, ja jeg stoler i alle fall ikke på noen av de, skulle jeg gått for NUF ville jeg gjort som mange anbefaler; å gå for et firma som faktisk har adresse i Norge. (Panlegis spekulerer jo i at man tror de er norsk, der de ringer fra norsk nummer, har norsk domene, snakker norsk, og opererer med norske priser helt til siste liten, og kaller seg “størst i Norge”. Først når det er for sent oppdager du at du ikke har rettigheter som angrefrist, og at å politianmelde de har liten effekt ettersom de ikke trenger å rette seg etter norsk lov.) Personlig kommer jeg til å gå for AS nå, rett og slett fordi det er vanskelig å finne en regnskapsfører som både har peiling på NUF og som jeg kan stole på.

Ellers vil jeg råde alle til å kun forholde seg til Panlegis i skriftlig form, og si at du kun forholder deg til skriftlige svar fra dem. Sånne tåpelige ting som trussel om politianmeldelse er kjekt å kunne dokumentere. Jeg tror de liker å ringe nettopp så du ikke kan dokumentere noen ting.

Personling tror jeg at NUF blir en sagablått snart. Når den nye Aksjeloven kommer så vil jeg gå ganske raskt vekk fra NUF. Når det bare krever en aksjekapital på 30.000 og en slipper å ha noen revisor da blir det faktisk billiger å ha AS en NUF, Jeg gleder meg til å flyte alle firmaene mine hjem til gamlelandet.

Monica, I had exactly the same experience that you describe with Panlegis, but I had it with Verdun. It all started when my wife registered on Bronnoysund Register her company as she wanted to work in sole proprietorship. The day after she received “the call” from Panlegis and unfortunately she gave Personal ID number and DEBIT Card details. Then they send her to Verdun and same thing happened again. After one hour, she realized she made a mistake and rushed to the bank but Panlegis already got about 5600 NOK and Verdun 10000 to register THREE companies in England as NUF. After talking to Panlegis and threatening them about reporting them to the POLICE, they cancelled the charge on the credit card (at least ONE of the three company got stopped). On the same day we received email stating that they have started the process to establish TWO companies in England and we reply to cancel everything, but of course it did not work. Now we are currently fighting with Verdun (we then actually received two invoices via email from Verdun company registered in England) to get the money back, but we already got the confirmation that they’ve registered ONE company in England and another one will come up soon. They keep telling us that they are listening to the recordings and are waiting for their legal department to advise on what they will tell us. As you can see, this is very similar to what happened to you with Panlegis. Please, if you have some time, I would like to have some information on how you got out of this:
1) We already started the debit card transactions complain case through my bank without even telling Verdun. I’m not sure if this will help in any way. What was the result of your card complaint case?
2) We have stated that we have NOT authorized the transactions, even if my wife actually did. Verdun is stating to have the recording of the phone call where my wife gave the debit card number etc. Do you know if they can use this against the card complain case?
3) It is not clear to me how you were able to get out of this. Did you ever get the money back from Panlegis? How did you manage to close the English registered company? Did you close it through Panlegis or by yourself? If I close the company in England, do I still need to pay some money to English Government (taxes, VAT, any other…)?
4) Is there anything else we need to do other than closing the company in England? Should we also close my wife company in Norway, just to make sure? Should she change Personal ID as she gave it to them as well?
5) After receiving threats from Panlegis to report you to the Police or talk to your bank, did they ever do anything?
6) As far as you know, if I don’t get the money back from my bank, should I be able to take them to court here in Norway or in England? On the invoice, it is stated that disputes should be settled under English law, which is actually where the company who sent me the invoices is based.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. any other detail that you may send me could help me in fighting them and ad a post at the end of my case to expain what was my experience at the end. Regards, Bjorn.

Hello Bjorn, wow, they really don´t learn do they! That´s outrageous. Sounds to me like you got out of it with Panlegis and not with Verdun, and as you might have seen some of us suspect they are the same people. Now to your questions:

1. My credit card transaction complaint was withdrawn (by me) when I got my money back, but I believe it helped. They got so pissed off when I mentioned it and that is when they threatened me with the police. My plan was to delete the ltd company and by that nullify any agreement but they actually paid my money back just before I sent that final e-mail. The only reason I can see for that is either the transaction complaint case was progressing and they knew, or they somehow knew that my company was deleted and knew the battle was lost. Personally I believe it´s the first one. In short, the mere threat of the transaction case is effective, if they get blacklisted or whatever with VISA, they can´t operate, I suspect.
2. I also gave up my personal id and credit card, and Panlegis of course claimed that I authorized the transaction (and used the “according to the tape recording…”). I was honest about that with both Panlegis and the bank, however I claim they manipulated me to do so. They use a very aggressive sales technique designed to get you to do that, and play on the fact that most people don´t get time to think properly while they keep you engaged on the phone. They also play on the fact that most people feel obligated to follow through and be polite, and they lead you to believe they are a Norwegian company bound by Norwegian law. They are very skilled at closing the deal before you hang up the phone, so you get no chance to think or even more important, google them. Or even time or opportunity to see the terms of the agreement they want you to make. I explained all this to the bank, and I´m sure it´s not the first time they heared of such a thing. I was concerned like you, but as it turns out, you were tricked into giving away your details, and even if you did inadvertently authorize the transaction, you did not agree to the terms, as you probably as me did not see the terms until after. I recommend you call the bank in addition to whatever you have written, and just be honest and explain everything. Also stress to the bank that you are trying to get your money back yourself, parallel to the transaction case.
3. As I said, I believe the transaction case was threatening enough to them to pay me back. But yes, I did get my money back. As soon as I received the document from England with the ltd company number, I filled in this form: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/forms/generalForms/DS01_striking_off_application_by_a_company.pdf and sent it to Companies House. Their website: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/infoAndGuide/windingUpCompany.shtml. You have to pay 10 GBP for each of the companies (one form for each). If you can´t use check or postal orders to pay, you write a short letter stating that you would like to pay by card, and for them to call you when they receive the forms and you give them your card details over the phone. Scary, I know, considering your recent experience, but I believe you can trust Companies House (English version of Brønnøysundreg.) Make sure you staple the letter to the forms, as in my case they got separated upon arrival and I had to resend it. If you haven´t got your money back at that point, (when you have talked to Companies House on the phone), you send an e-mail to Verdun that you have deleted the company, which means the party they claim to have an agreement with, no longer exists. They have taken money from your private account, but they have an agreement with a company that does not exist. Keep it short and formal. I also said to them to keep any future communication in writing so that you can document it. At least this way if they threaten you, you can prove it.
4. Closing the English company is easy. As I said, just fill in the form and send it, wait for the call about payment and then it´s done. You don´t have to close the Norwegian company, and I don´t believe you need to worry about them abusing your personal ID. I may be naïve, but I don´t think that´s their scam. Obviously you should cancel that particular bankcard and get a new one issued with a different number.
5. I never heared anything else regarding the report to the police. I mean, it´s not like it´s a crime to launch a card transaction complaint, which is what they wanted me to believe. I believe that was an empty threat. Also, what harm can they possibly make to my relationship with my bank? I had already told the bank my story, and I had been honest, so there´s nothing they can do. I suppose they might scare some people off that way, but if you don´t get scared it has no effect:-)
6. I believe you can get your money back from Verdun, just make sure they know you´ re not backing off and your not scared. You SHOULD inform them that you have started the complaint case, but if you have already argued with them to no avail, I wouldn´t bother discussing any more with them. Just inform them about the case, and that they will hear from you shortly. I´m not sure why, but partly based on advice in here, I did NOT inform them about deleting the company myself, until the company was actually deleted. (After I paid the 10 pounds.) I don´t have much faith that you would get very far in a Norwegian court as they are not bound by Norwegian law, but I´m no expert. I think for now you should aim to get the money back without it going that far:-)

I understand why you haven´t told the bank that you gave away your details, I suspect It´s because you feel stupid and blame yourself, like I did:-) But all I can recommend is that you are honest about everything. Yes, you were stupid to give your details away, but they are nevertheless actually trying to steal your money!

You can also mention to your bank that this webpage exists, it helps to back up what you are saying about your experience. Do let us know how it goes, and just ask if you need more help. Happy to help with this particular matter, as the rudeness by these people is so great, I have taken it upon myself to balance the scale:-)

Do remember that, one can not have a NUF in Norway without a company in another European country. Therefore, one must always delete the Norwegian NUF, before one do delete the company one have abroad.

I am assuming he has a “enkeltmannsforetak”? If so it does not have to be deleted. But otherwise I am sure you are right:-)

Monica, thank you very much for your precious answer. I have two news: as GOOD one and BAD one. The GOOD one first: as you suggested, I did the credit card complain via NORDEA and they did it via VISA. After few months I was able to get my money back. At the same time I did all the paper work with Compnies House to close the UK companies, which are now closed. By the way, I don’t understand what you mean by "deleting the Norwegian NUF… do you think my wife has one?
Anyway, back to the businness. Now the BAD news. My wife now started receiving mails (not emails) from INTRUM JUSTITIA regarding UNPAID bills of “services” provided by Verdun Legal Services Ltd. In such request of payments of unpaid bills, there is a reference to the two invoices that my wife received right after she gave them the credit card details. Now, I’m sure that they are just trying again to get some money from my wife, but at the same time I was thinking if some of you experienced the same problem and if someone can suggest a possible way forward. I was actually thinking about going to a Norwegian lawer, but before doing this I would like some advise, as INTRUM JUSTITIA does not seem to be the most realiable company, if I searach the web.
Ok, well… thank you very much again! Regads, Bjorn.

What are those bills for? Did they not just charge your credit card for everything? I don´t have experience with this, but I would ask the bank that helped you out already, and contact the inkasso company and tell them that you dispute the claim.

Regarding deleting the Norwegian NUF, I don´t think you have one. Did you send any papers that you received from Verdun, to Brønnøysundreg and pay yet more money? If not, you still just have your “enkeltmannsforetak”, and you don´t have to delete that.

By the way, glad you got your money back:-)

Hi Monica,

This is Richie. I’m from Oslo. Please help me on how to take my money back and delete my company to London. I am a fraud victim also of Panlegis. Right after my business had registered last July 5th, 2013, I received a call from Panlegis. They told me about my business about NUF and Invest. They know all the details about my business which it made me believed that they are from Bronnoysund until they asked my bank card information which I gave to them also. I was really fooled by them. I could say I was being hypnotized with them. I could not think right, when I was talking to them. They took 12,906NOK from my account. They told me I would receive the payment receipt and the documents later that I need to fill up to be sent in Bronnoysund and they will call me again to help me go through the documents. Now, I receive the documents but I don’t fill it up because right after they called I really felt that there’s really something wrong. I really felt it was a scam. That’s why I called immediately the bank to close my bank card. Until today, they kept calling me, but I didn’t answer. Please help me what to do with this.

My concern is I need to take my money back and delete my company to London. If I receive a refund from them, where and how could I receive it?

I’m really hoping you can reply and help me to solve my problem.
Thank you so much for your time.

Sincerely,
Richie

Pass dere for noe som heter European City Guide også. De driver også og lurer folk trill rundt til å kjøpe noe som ikke er verdt noe for masse penger, og ’’stjeler’’ underskrifter slik at du blir abbonnent og må betale årlig…

er det noen som har en e-post adresse til panlegis. prøver og komme i kontakt med dem ang. annulering????

Annonse